Take it easy Matt, you’r in danger of developing a sense of humour, nice comment. Haven’t eaten agricultural produce in 30 yrs. Not about to start now.

I’m all in favour of any exposure of the current meat trade however I’m not in favour of a “Meat Bashing Bible” which is what you will likely get from Wilson (I’ve seen his videos, which are either laughable or horrendous depending on your knowledge or sense of humour). We can well do without the views of a fundamentalist. What we need is a broad minded tolerant and humane view of all food prduction into the future. Although to be fair I haven’t yet read the book I can imagine its contents based on the author’s approach to the subject. So my original comment stands “propaganda”.

PS. The book is unlikely to read by the general public and his rather sneering approach is liable to put many people off regardless of content.

Keep well

Rowland

Exactly, you haven’t read the book.

Are you going to buy it for me?

Sure, send me your address. You seem like you live in very privileged circumstances, not having eaten agricultural produce for 30 years. Some might even say that you live in elitist circumstances. If only the other 7.5 billion people on the planet had the same luxury as you. But they don’t Rowland, there isn’t enough land or resources for that, as you well know. People in the global north eat meat from these factory farms, which is problematic. That needs to be exposed, wouldn’t you agree, or is that vegan propaganda?

Hi Matt,
Is exposing the current meat production methods “vegan propaganda”? No. Is a book by a fundamentalist animal rights advocate liable to be “vegan propaganda” ?Yes. Wilson will quite simply be using the horrors of industrial animal Ag to gain vegan converts and strengthen the belief of the already converted. He won’t be advocating that people use sustainably produced non plant foods. I quite simply don’t have any time for Anthropocentric Moralists whatever their cause.

Elitist diet? Far from it. High fruit and veg, low saturated fat and starch, moderate amounts of quality animal foods. It’s not a diet, it’s more a concept of eating, since food availability varies according to location and season. It’s already in use by millions of rural communities worldwide and with the appropriate agricultural reforms could be available to al

Is it a bad thing to be vegan? You seem to be suggesting that it is. I wonder why, as a carnist, you believe this? Is it that you just could never bring yourself to quit meat?

Yeah I mean people should eat from a variety of sources. But they shouldn’t eat meat and dairy. Because these items are fundamentally unhealthy and they take a disproportional amount of resources to produce.

It’s not like you Matt to resort to petty name calling “carnist”, I’m disappointed. Would you call the older generation of Okinawans “carnist” they enjoy their tofu fried in pork fat, I don’t use either food, but it’s not for me or you to criticise, since they do little damage to Biosphere.

Do I hate vegans? It’s for every person to make their own choices, I do however dislike people that preach, propagandise, cherry pick and in some cases tell outright lies, there are always two sides to any issue. The older generation of vegans that I knew as a child ( my godmother was one of the first in the UK), were compassionate and tolerant and only explained their views when asked. What’s gone wrong?

No food is inherently healthy or unhealthy it depends on the part it plays in the overall diet.

Livestock when used in a traditional manner requires no additional resources, ( no subsistence farmer with more than two brain cells would use fertile land to feed animals). And yes we can feed the world on modern scientific variations of traditional Ag.

The word carnist is not an insult, it’s a descriptor of someone that is a non vegan, someone whom thinks it’s normal, natural and nice to eat animals. It’s kind of telling that you took it as an insult.

I need to take you to task on this: “No food is inherently healthy or unhealthy it depends on the part it plays in the overall diet.” This is strait up not true, or a lie if you’d prefer. Certain foods can improve health, others can damage health. Red, or mammal meat is a prime example of this. If you eat a tiny amount of it in your diet you might sustain an unmeasurable amount of damage. This is different from saying that the food does no damage.

How much do you know about nutrition Rowland? Making such a statement. The sialic acid Neu5Gc found in mammal meats and dairy makes the foods themselves unhealthy as they promote disease through an auto immune response. This leads to cardiovascular disease and cancer. Depending on the amount of the substance that is consumed. That is but one chemical in meat that has contributed to it’s reputation as being unhealthy. Consumption of heme iron for example was recently linked with colon cancer. Saturated fat clogs arteries. TMAO causes chronic inflammation. How about the fact that meat contains zero fiber? Fiber is the biggest deficiency in the western diet right now. We know high consumption of meat increases rates of Alzheimer’s. The essential amino acid methionine which accelerates cancer growth is found in high concentrations of both meat and dairy. So given all that how can you suggest that meat isn’t inherently unhealthy?

Is this your problem with vegans, that they keep telling you things that you would rather weren’t true? Face facts Rowland, raising and eating meat is highly problematic.

I’m afraid that whatever your intentions the term “carnist” remains offensive because it puts me into a category I don’t recognise and robs me of my ability to comment objectively.

What do I know about diet? Vegetarian naturopath mother, steeped in diet from the age of five, developed debilitating autoimmune condition ( according to the medical profession incurable) aged 30, tried PO (plant only) diet which had little effect, current diet ( based on evolution and natural foods) reversed condition within two weeks. Now 77 fully fit no medication or supplements.

Does meat, or any other foods in isolation, cause cancer or other NCDs? Highly unlikely (apart from allergies or severe intolerances)

The health of societies is gauged by the level of NCDs. In indigenous peoples and subsistence farmers the levels of NCDs is vanishingly low (all use animal foods to a greater or lesser degree) contacts with the diet of the developed world results in a massive decline in overall health in all cases. After 30 yrs of studying diets across the world in the hope of finding a common denominator for health, the only conclusion I have come to is, the closer you live to nature the better.

If you don’ know my views on the issue by now you never will, so I’ll call it a day.

Regards,

Rowland

The common denominator of the healthiest diet is minimumly processed plant foods. I’d be surprised if you don’t know what the “blue zones” are. These are regions in the world where people are longest lived. Where they eat primarily plants and they all eat legumes.

If your mother had autoimmune issues as a vegetarian I’d be shocked if it wasn’t triggered by dairy. Dairy is implicated in the cause of type 1 diabetes and multiple sclerosis. Elements such as Neu5Gc, cow insulin, and other unnatural substances trigger an autoimmune response. That’s what you get from feeding off another mammal.

If you were eating from an evolutionary standpoint you would at least avoid eating mammals. With forighn sialic acids we incorporate into our own cell you are practically inviting the body to start attacking itself. Since our split from other hominids 3 million years ago we have been mal adapted to eating red meat. And now our technology has enabled us to eat it 3 times a day we are living with those consequences. The entire society suffering under the burden of chronic disease.

Misunderstanding due to my hasty writing! My mother didn’t suffer from an autoimmune condition “I did”. Dairy didn’t play a role.

My mother went “plant only” for the last 20 yrs of her life. She died of breast cancer aged 65.

Your knowledge on diet seems to be based on what you can find to justify your veganism. Having studied Human Evolution at University level I can assure you your knowledge on the subject is minimal. Did you mean Hominin or Hominid, we split from the Hominid line 6 to 8 million yrs ago. Which species are you referring to? Habalis was the first to use carcass meats, Erectus the first hunter and the first to move out of Africa into colder climes, all indications are that meat consumption increased, along with cranial capacity.

Veganism is an animal rights movement and is therefore incapable of undertaking objective research into diet, evolution or ecology.(don’t bore me with the facts I’ve made my mind up).

Matt start thinking outside the box. It’s a big world out there and nobody is forcing you to use animal products

I started eating plant based before I considered myself vegan, not after. I’m not trying to justify anything.

If you want to get into evolution I’d love to do that. Since our evolutionarily line stopped synthesizing Neu5Gc, eating mammals with Neu5Gc has been inflamitory. It’s fine to eat meat if you are struggling to scratch a living off rocks. But we are beyond that now so eating it is sub optimal for our health. Just like any junk food, it tastes good but should be avoided.

You know what we humans are really specialized to eat? Starches, we have more amylase gene copies then any other species that I know of. Why would that be? Because humans got most of their sustenance from digging up corms and cooking them. You can see that in our physiology. So it only makes sense that plant based diets are the healthiest for homo-sapiens.